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Build talk:Rt/P Spear of Remedy/Archive 1
__TOC__ Discussion Synergy? --- [[User:Ressmonkey|'Ressmonkey']] [[User Talk:Ressmonkey|(talk)]] 12:27, 19 October 2007 (CEST) :I'd swap Vengeful weapon for another restoration spell. You're a hybrid Damage Dealer/Healer kinda, but VW/WoR is overkill for this build's purpose. Probably add another heal, spirit, or spear attack in its place.Paragon City 15:38, 19 October 2007 (CEST) ::But what is the purpose of a Rt/P damage dealer/bad healer? --- [[User:Ressmonkey|'Ressmonkey']] [[User Talk:Ressmonkey|(talk)]] 22:13, 19 October 2007 (CEST) :::Its purpose is to win matches. It isn't meant to take the place of a monk, yet I've not lost very often against a team with a monk using this build without a monk on my own team. Consider this: Weapon of Remedy/Vengeful Weapon are not simply "heals." Because they are life stealing skills, as you know, they damage the enemy and heal the ally. If an enemy has 500 health, and an ally has 400 health (100hp advantage) and is struck by the enemy for 50 damage, the enemy now has a 150 health advantage (500hp v. 350hp). If that ally has a rank 15 Weapon of Remedy on him, he steals 75 health from the enemy, which damages that opponent as well as healing the ally, bringing equality (425hp v. 425hp). When considering life stealing, you should essentially double the effect as it changes the playing field by that many hit points, compared to other skills (healing, damage, etc). Please try the build before judging it. It may be odd, but it is quite effective. - 68.97.132.83 00:36, 21 October 2007 (CEST) ::::Ya rly. Removed all the 0-0-0 votes. -Auron 13:15, 21 October 2007 (CEST) :::::"So a monk does what then? Stop casting if he's under attack?" uhm auron, what do you mean with that? a monk is there to heal/prot since a monk has no attacking skills (I hope). Here you will have no time to attack when someone is bumping you (unless you have an extra monk in your team). But I guess I'll give it a try ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'InfestedHydralisk']] 19px 13:53, 21 October 2007 (CEST) ::::::It was in response to your vote... -Auron 00:40, 22 October 2007 (CEST) :::::::Ah, you didn't know what else to say? :P ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'InfestedHydralisk']] 19px 01:29, 22 October 2007 (CEST) If I voted on this build in current form it would just get deleted. So, instead, I made a Restoration Spear Chucker and took it into RA. My new version works better (as good as you can get for this kind of thing anyway); I'm going to change this page to the new build and put it back into Testing. Zuranthium 03:52, 13 February 2008 (EST) :WTB vote wipe too. Zuranthium 13:27, 13 February 2008 (EST) Wtb energy? Frans 05:50, 14 February 2008 (EST) :Energy was fine for me when I used it, and the high energy set helped a lot if I needed to overcast. I used Mending Grip(lol, a use for mending grip) instead of Weapon of Shadow, to give myself condition removal while under the effect of Weapon of Warding(Instead of losing it if I use Weapon of Remedy). Worked quite well with that variant, and I suggest putting it in the variants.Paragon City 15:13, 14 February 2008 (EST) ::I was originally considering Mending Grip but decided Weapon of Shadow was better so you can still prot yourself if Warding gets interrupted (or keep two people protected at the same time). I'll add to variants though. Zuranthium 20:06, 14 February 2008 (EST) This build really is fun to play if you're into trying to do everything and be a superhero. For some laughs: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v407/Zuranthium/gw155.jpg?t=1203044894. Zuranthium 22:16, 14 February 2008 (EST) :Congrats, you got a flawless in ra. That means absolutely nothing. Lord Belar 22:26, 14 February 2008 (EST) ::its hard m8 i nevr git munk so cnt stay alive =/ — Skadiddly슴Mc슴Diddles 22:32, 14 February 2008 (EST) ::Actually, it means he's 3 Glad points higher. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 22:45, 14 February 2008 (EST) :::Tru dat! Zuranthium 23:40, 14 February 2008 (EST) i r leet, no? Lord Belar 22:36, 14 February 2008 (EST) :Be facetious if you want to. Won't change the fact that this build can make some strong plays in RA. Zuranthium 23:40, 14 February 2008 (EST) ::I got ten glad points with that build. RA means nothing. Lord Belar 20:30, 15 February 2008 (EST) :::Sure, but how consistently is that build going to get those glad points? If RA means nothing to you, stop trying to discuss builds that are created for RA. Zuranthium 00:11, 16 February 2008 (EST) ::::Use a spear, throw in an IAS if you're bored, works wonders ^^ — Skadiddly슴Mc슴Diddles 00:15, 16 February 2008 (EST) ::::Doesn't help keep teams alive. Zuranthium 20:40, 16 February 2008 (EST) :::::It's got mending. Lord Belar 23:51, 16 February 2008 (EST) :::::LOL nice addition. So now we've got...Spear Master, Apply Poison, and Mending. 3 different classes ftw! Zuranthium 03:32, 17 February 2008 (EST) ::: you dont need spear mastery to use a separ. candy cane!. --Thc 19:14, 21 February 2008 (EST) ::::OMG this looks fun. Justing6 21:07, 24 April 2008 (EDT) amidoinitrite? This reminds me of the MOAR HEALING AND MOAR DAMAGE monk from a while ago.-- The Assassin 01:36, 1 May 2008 (EDT) srsly just tryed this build, its aweasome, i have no damn clue how this synergizes but packing great spear dps and good rit heals is so nice, +1 for this build. :3 --[[User:Super Igor|'Super Igor']] *ninja!!* 17:18, 28 May 2008 (EDT) lol this was above trash? --'-Chao ' 17:31, 21 January 2009 (EST) :don't ask. 17:34, 21 January 2009 ::zur (old BM) made it out of trash. he did it with all of his bad builds. Gringo 17:35, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::That's funny, it was in the GOOD category for quite awhile. Why? Because many people voted it up to there, not because Zur had some fascination with it. I don't prefer it to the original version, but it is still a strong and capable build in its intended format. - Greven 17:43, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::::Zur removed every vote that gave it less than 4-4, like he did with every build posted. This is terrible, get over it.--Golden19pxStar 17:45, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::: it's an AWFUL build, stop ranting about it in three different places Greven (Gringo's RfBM, this page, and Golden's talk). It's a VERY bad attempt at making a rit do too many things. If you really want damage that badly, run some channeling. -- 17:46, 21 January 2009 :::::There are three separate problems. Gringo's vote is terrible: he either can't extrapolate how this build works from the page, doesn't care about non-8v8 arenas, or doesn't understand the skills. Goldenstar abused his power: 9 votes removed at his sole discretion in order to drive this build out of public voting and instead into his own personal idea of how good/bad a build is from how it looks on paper. Here, I'm trying to tell you that you are not getting this build. - Greven 17:51, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::::::well my vote is completely valid for first, secondly golden is abusing his power, its his job to keep bad builds off the wiki. thats part of what being a BM is all about mate. Gringo 17:53, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::::::BMs remove bad/wrong votes. crazy cow 17:54, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::::: No. Goldenstar is a fucking BM, meaning WE chose HIM to CORRECTLY remove shitty (very wrong) votes. He's not abusing his power. Talk to any decent player on PvX (Ska, Auron, Frosty, Reason, Gringo, maybe even Infested, just name some who voted on this), and they will agree that this is a terrible build. -- 17:56, 21 January 2009 :::::::Yipee. I didn't choose him. I would have voted against him from previous experience had I noticed he was up for nomination. He's hotheaded and thinks he knows best. This comes to the crux of the problem: do you want an authoritarian system where a few decide for the many based purely on their own ideas, or do you want a more democratic system where the build masters remove few votes, such as in rewrites and skill updates, in addition to grossly wrong voting? :::::::See, the problem is you are saying because he's a build master, he can just drastically change the voting on this build due to that. Why the hell do build masters' votes count for more, then? A build master should simply be able to remove as many votes as he or she likes until the build lands in the desired category!. :::::::That's what you are justifying here. - Greven 18:10, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::::::::When the majority of players are as good at GW as you, i'd go with the authoritarian option. -- 18:14, 21 January 2009 ::::::::Hahaha you don't know anything about me. Way to belittle a person you disagree with without giving any sorts factual, logical reasoning. - Greven 18:17, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::::::::(without trying to offend you) i think hes judging your skill on the fact that your are defending this build. Go hit policy and then read about why we have build masters. Gringo 18:20, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::::::::PvXwiki:Build Masters, the policy is elitist on purpose to compensate for the ridiculous number of bad builds (like this one) that are submitted to wiki everyday.--Golden19pxStar 18:22, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::::::::::Perhaps you should read it yourself, Mr. Build Master: "Votes that deliberately overshoot in favoring or unfavoring a build in order to 'compensate' another vote are not acceptable either." You certainly violated it in removing votes, I'd say it applies the same to deliberately removing votes to unfavor/favor a build. You removed 9, Zur removed 4. - Greven 18:28, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::::::::::know what happens when you ass-ume? also, zur had to remove less because there were less wrong votes at the time. Gringo 18:32, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::::::::::::Greven, that thing means that one shouldn't vote low to balance someone elses high vote. Everyone here says you're wrong, what's the matter? --'-Chao ' 18:38, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::::::::::::""Votes that deliberately overshoot in favoring or unfavoring a build in order to 'compensate' another vote are not acceptable either." that says nothing about removing votes :/ [[User:Frosty|'Frosty']] po! 18:40, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::::::::::::There were also more favorable votes as I recall. Unfortunate that the dates can't be seen to show you such, since Goldenstar's heavy-handed vote removal war destroyed the record of when those votes were cast. Goldenstar removed 9 votes, then after removing those 9 votes and adding his own vote, he had JUST 5 remaining. Just enough to move it to where he wanted it: trash. Several others have since jumped on the "oh it's crap" bandwagon, as often happens to a build that is marked unfavorable (whether or not it deserves it, as it most often does). ::::::::::::Who cares what everyone else says? I know wrong when I see it. It is a shame that others do not. - Greven 18:42, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::::::::::::Everyone on this site is wrong but me mentality is brave--Golden19pxStar 18:45, 21 January 2009 (EST) :<- I actually tried it, though. Unlike this theory-crafting. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Enough of this. - Greven 18:48, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::k--Golden19pxStar 18:50, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::(insert some template explaining why builds don't need to be tested) Combining a gimped spear bar and a gimped resto bar doesn't make you a strong restospear. --ShazamLovesObama obamaobamaobamaobamaobama 18:52, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::::Oh look, this tired argument again 'oh but I know how it will play because I have tons and tons of experience playing this game.' Well guess what, so do I. Want to play a game? I started two days after release, participated in the beta test for some time (Shatterstone is better now, at least), thousands of hours ingame and most of it in PvP arenas. Just as a reference. Beat that or something, I don't really care. It doesn't matter in how this build performs. What I care about is fairness, and I'd prefer PvX to test builds ingame that aren't A) very similar to other builds or B) obviously flawed like echo-arcane echo-mending. - Greven 19:03, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::::k--Golden19pxStar 19:08, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::::::doesn't matter how long or much you've played a game. I've played gw for over 3 years and still suck and idc. have to mention that it's much because I lack interest in dedicating myself to actually get very good at something, such as farming or high-end pvp. makes life chilly. --'-Chao ' 19:16, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::::::Of course it doesn't matter. What matters is judging the build on its merits. You didn't do that though, did you? You think it must be inferior to such and such build, therefore it is completely trash. You rated it what... 0? Wow, way to violate site policies there. It functions, therefore it can't be a 0. It is capable of winning its intended format, therefore it's not completely useless at 1. It may be inferior at certain tasks to other builds, but it combines aspects (oh no it doesn't have... SYNNNNNNNNERGY!??... or does it?) into an interesting whole. You are apparently voting with your dick. - Greven 19:25, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::::::::k--Golden19pxStar 19:28, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::::::::That isn't a response. Try the build already or restore the votes if you don't intend to. - Greven 19:32, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::::::::::k--Golden19pxStar 19:34, 21 January 2009 (EST) I'd have to agree with Greven on this one. — Skakid Rally- kupo! 19:46, 21 January 2009 (EST) :I see where you're coming from Ska, but compare this to other support characters. Lets take a WoD necro for instance. It provides nice defense for your monk (stop rangers from interrupting faint, keeps your team free of conditions feast), as well as providing nice offense (shutting monk down for 40% if the time 4040 set, spreading pressure to the other team sending, and dealing 100 damage whenever someone tries to block defenses). It can also stay alive well (stances), and is overall a sturdier support character then this, Gringo 20:14, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::WoD necromancers don't deal damage or heal, though. — Skakid Rally- kupo! 21:37, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::id rather let someone else deal WAY more damage (turret, primal rage etc), and then ahve a nec for shutdown. and pressure from PS+WoD are more valuable then a tiny bit of spear damage, and the healing is made up for by foul feast and by shutting down people (faint/insidious etc). Gringo 21:40, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::Just keep in mind this is an RA build designed for people who can't get organized Ta teams to farm glad points in the most effective manner. — Skakid Rally- kupo! 21:42, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::::most/many people in RA just bring raw damage (eles, warriors, turrets, etc), so a necro is a good choice for being a support character. Gringo 21:45, 21 January 2009 (EST) :::::I dunno, i see a lot more mediocre damage (aka bad) builds, so the extra damage from this ends up helping quite a bit in the long run. — Skakid Rally- kupo! 21:55, 21 January 2009 (EST) Ok, so I totalled up the votes and averaged them, including all of the removed ones. Total: 2.42. Trash. Does that settle it? -- 18:39, 21 January 2009 :Which ones, the legitimately-removed build rewrite ones? - Greven 18:42, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::Honestly, this conversation has turned from talking about the build to Greven bitching about the votes being removed. If you think that they were legitimately removed for bad reasons, go to the Admin Noticeboard, make a post, and an admin will make a decision. Otherwise, i think we can all stop posting here because this is going no where. Gringo 19:00, 21 January 2009 (EST) The build works pretty well in RA, it's tagged for RA, and should be rated for RA. — Skakid Rally- kupo! 19:02, 21 January 2009 (EST) :no focus, no synergies, uses FoMF in arenas. enough for a trash tag tbh --'-Chao ' 19:06, 21 January 2009 (EST) ::okay, it has sig now. say, if it'd do 50% the job of a dedicated pressure char and 50% that of a monk, it'd be alright, but without IAS it doesn't do the 50%, and a monk can remove hexes and heal more with WoH alone. --'-Chao ' 19:43, 21 January 2009 (EST)